tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post4419846247304977630..comments2023-12-28T01:11:49.188-08:00Comments on Cum Lazaro: New venture: Mass readings in Scots languageLazarushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09716412032074416331noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-66202534345565535112017-04-30T15:36:43.326-07:002017-04-30T15:36:43.326-07:00That's a really good point and I'm not qui...That's a really good point and I'm not quite sure how to answer it! Kirk in particular does have a strong Augustinian sense of the futility of politics and perhaps it's this (coupled with a strong sense of the local rather than the state) that made me think of him as a model. (We may be conflicted over the political status of the nation, but all sides might agree on the imperfectability of politics and the importance of local language etc.) Scruton might be seen as more of a British Nationalist except he did come out in favour of Scottish independence I think precisely on the grounds that the present conflict of loyalties was unsustainable.<br /><br />But in short, it is a tough question!<br /><br />LazarusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-32459680772592121902017-04-30T15:25:24.714-07:002017-04-30T15:25:24.714-07:00I confess to not being quite sure what the precise...I confess to not being quite sure what the precise status of Scots should be beyond -as you say- being something to cherish. And certainly you're right that any memory of pre-Union Scotland *might* be seen by a unionist as a threat -except that, in many cases in the past, they haven't: a very public celebration of things Scottish has been part of the Union (and Scott is probably the best example of this). My worry is that part of the current polarisation of Scottish life might lead unionists to view any display of nationalism as problematic. (And as Leask notes Scots and Gaelic seem to be victims of this.) If this is happening, I think it is shortsighted: if the union is to work, it will have to recover some (doubtless tense) sense of its being a union of separate nations and not just a melting pot. I have no idea if this will I fact be possible. In any case, for a variety of reasons, both Unionists and Nationalists should cherish Scots and Gaelic.<br /><br />Better tartan kitsch than the alternative cyber warrior uniform of dressing gown and slippers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-73093666323711538272017-04-30T09:22:24.219-07:002017-04-30T09:22:24.219-07:00Another thought, Lazarus. As far as I understand &...Another thought, Lazarus. As far as I understand 'Kirkian, Scrutonian or palaeo-conservatism' (I am happy to be corrected here), one of its constitutive elements is a powerful, though non-ideological, sense of patriotism.<br /><br />The unresolved nature of the constitutional question here means that a Scottish form of that conservatism would immediately be confronted with the reality that the proper focus of our patriotism, far from being a bedrock of stability, is bitterly contested ground.<br /><br />Perhaps this is one factor preventing Kirkian conservatism from emerging in Scotland - which is ironic given his affection for our country!Kennethhttp://www.pluscardenabbey.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-65919960157639544882017-04-29T07:18:53.339-07:002017-04-29T07:18:53.339-07:00Ah, all credit to Mrs Lazarus then! It's great...Ah, all credit to Mrs Lazarus then! It's great that Lorimer's translation has been part of your life for so many years. When I described it as 'definitive' I guess I meant that it's hard to see how a better translation could be made into that kind of Scots, even if Lorimer's astonishingly rich and evocative language may be seen by some as somewhat idealised these days.<br /><br />The relationship between language and Scotland is, of course, complex. At various points in our history Gaelic, Latin, Scots and English have all been 'official languages' in this land, but since the dawn of mass-literacy English has dominated.<br /><br />English, even though it has subtle national variations (I suspect we both speak 'Scottish Standard English') is the modern Latin, an international language that no longer 'belongs' to any one people. And the Scots no more need a unique national language to be 'authentically' Scottish than the Irish, American, Canadian, Australian and so forth people do.<br /><br />That said, the Gaelic and Scots strands of our cultural identity are profound and unique to us: a Scottish 'palaeo-conservative' would be right to see in them something to cherish, even if he didn't speak the languages himself.<br /><br />Conservative Unionist hostility to Scots is likely a result of seeing in the serious or formal use of Scots a reassertion of pre- (or non-) Unionist Scottish identity; which can so easily become a political threat. Surely the 20th century Scottish Renaissance writers saw this too.<br /><br />Anyway, even though you look resplendent in your blogging costume, I would never wear such an outfit: early exposure to MacDiarmid gave me a long-standing dread of kitschy tartanry!Kennethhttp://www.pluscardenabbey.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-17203747750406463502017-04-28T09:47:15.134-07:002017-04-28T09:47:15.134-07:00Yes, indeed! I have a copy which I was given (by m...Yes, indeed! I have a copy which I was given (by my then girlfriend and now wife!) just after its publication. I'd completely agree with you and heartily recommend it to anyone as a remarkable work.https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_New_Testament_In_Scots.html?id=WIFMcG60hmQC<br /><br />I will use it -although there is the question of copyright! (Embarrased shuffling of feet on my part!) But I hadn't realised until recently the breadth of alternative versions http://www.scottishcorpus.ac.uk/document/?documentid=688 What really pushed me to do this is that I recently discovered an (I presume) continuing programme to translate the Old Testament into what seems to be either Ulster-Scots or as it is described 'plain Scots' (which seems to be a Scots deliberately designed to be common to both Ulster and Scotland: http://www.ianadamson.net/2015/01/16/the-bible-in-plain-scots/ <br /><br />Quite apart from all the reasons I've given above, I interested in doing this simply to get a better sense of the worth of the different versions!Lazarushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09716412032074416331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-76634575165175218912017-04-28T09:07:21.535-07:002017-04-28T09:07:21.535-07:00Lazarus, what a fascinating post, with much indeed...Lazarus, what a fascinating post, with much indeed to think about! But what I must say before anything else is that you cannot write about the Bible in Scots without referring to the magisterial and definitive New Testament in Scots by William Lorimer. If you haven't a copy, you simply must go out and buy one:<br /><br />http://www.canongate.tv/shop/genre/non-fiction/religion-philosophy/the-new-testament-in-scots-paperback-reissue.htmlKennethhttp://www.pluscardenabbey.orgnoreply@blogger.com