tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post3803276281305972621..comments2023-12-28T01:11:49.188-08:00Comments on Cum Lazaro: Trojan Horse schools and the Clarke reportLazarushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09716412032074416331noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-68218047223892704552014-07-24T04:02:41.912-07:002014-07-24T04:02:41.912-07:00Simon, I've replied at length in my following ...Simon, I've replied at length in my following post: http://cumlazaro.blogspot.com/2014/07/trojan-horse-schools-reader-comments.htmlLazarushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09716412032074416331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-79926101205919953102014-07-23T13:14:07.225-07:002014-07-23T13:14:07.225-07:00"Lobbing", eh? I realised that I was lay..."Lobbing", eh? I realised that I was laying myself open to such criticism as I cut down my piece to its conclusion. But I found it difficult adequately to explain my own journey from imagining "islamic" replaced by "catholic" (20-odd years or so ago: I thought I was being "fair") to my current position: that I consider such an approach worse than merely misguided, and to fall for the secularist error of considering all religions equal, and to abdicate responsibility for judging what might be good in islam, and what is not. (Difficult, I mean, to do so charitably and, as I am posting under my own name and as I live and work among large numbers of mohammedans, responsibly.)<br /><br />Yes, I have read Geoffrey's posts. I've never commented there, and I shan't do so now, but I will say here that I thought both of them rather poor and, yes, naive.<br /><br />Yes, of course some of Peter Clarke's premises would not be shared by faithful catholics, and I agree that the evidence from the online forum is poorly presented (it reads - I hope the simile is not ill-judged - like telling tales in school). And I do agree that he is wrong - naive - to think that the opinions expressed there are not also held by parents. I think they are typical of opinions held by young Pakistani men (I mean, English-born Pakistanis). Certainly, the cadences are familiar to me, and the opinions are not a surprise. But I do think that he is right to highlight those opinions.<br /><br />I think that the report does clearly show evidence of a conspiracy, based on the local presence of a majority of Pakistani muslims, surreptitiously to gain control of schools in Birmingham and elsewhere, encouraging children in racial and religious hatred and to despise the culture and nation that have welcomed their families. <br /><br />One last thing: you disparage the report as "anecdotal". What do you mean by that, and why do you consider it a Bad Thing? Evidence of various kinds is described, and much of it is inevitably anecdotal. Evidence often is. For good or ill, the report is not intended to be a balanced presentation of conflicting evidence, but a set of recommendations informed by a large body of evidence and illustrated by examples. Like it or not, and without being, er, naive, we have to accept its author's integrity. His role is not analogous to that of a prosecutor as you imply, but of an investigating magistrate (I think that's what they're called).<br /><br />I agree that it's not an easy read.Simon Plattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-67322075901941437672014-07-23T10:29:29.406-07:002014-07-23T10:29:29.406-07:00In the 'culture war', I'm on the side ...In the 'culture war', I'm on the side of the Western idea of reason. We are indeed talking about the things you mention: the only question is whether we talking about them wisely with an attempt to discern the truth rather than getting washed away on a flood of hysteria. We'll only be able to do that if we calm down and look rationally at the problem. (And that includes, for Catholics, looking at principles of social teaching such as freedom of religion and the right of parents as primary educators.)<br /><br />Taken in a wider sense than I actually used the phrase, the 'imagine the catholic equivalent' is, I'm afraid, cold reality. See eg http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2014/06/yes-faith-schools-really-are-the-problem The principles used to attack Muslim parents are already being used to attack Christians.<br /><br />I've no doubt that there are problems in some of these schools. For example, the discussion of financial management (pp91ff) clearly raises some issues. Those should be looked at. But it remains that the report as a whole, as I've argued above, is a poorly argued piece. If you disagree with that, then by all means argue the point, but that means giving reasons and referencing the report rather than simply lobbing words around.<br /><br />You'll find a similar critique to mine: http://jessicahof.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/of-trojans-and-their-horse/ Geoffrey Sales, the writer, is even less inclined to 'foolish naiveté' than I am as well as being less inclined to bite his tongue than I have been here.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Lazarushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09716412032074416331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5078331897510807942.post-18456301384828996632014-07-23T09:15:25.480-07:002014-07-23T09:15:25.480-07:00Culture war? I'll say there's a culture wa...Culture war? I'll say there's a culture war!<br /><br />We're talking here about nepotism, intimidation, contempt for "kaffirs", financial irregularity, racism, misogyny, and, quite frankly, a conspiracy. It's a familiar story, but none of it is part of my culture.<br /><br />I'm sorry, but "imagine the catholic equivalent" is foolish naiveté.Simon Plattnoreply@blogger.com